Battery Reports

Posted by cafeen 
Battery Reports
March 19, 2012 02:00PM
I was hoping to start a thread for people to let everyone know what battery solution they are using, and how it is working. This way there is a place for the noobs to get ideas for their projects.

Things that would be good in reports

Model name - or parts list
Est cost
Were modifications needed
How long is it lasting between charges
Recharge time

Ooh and pictures
Re: Battery Reports
March 19, 2012 10:35PM
Tried the SIIG 2400 and it barely lasted 8 hours with no traffic.

Cost $30

Recommended? - no


On a side note, we should get a script written to test and benchmark the battery life.

Something like, open webpage, upload file (4MB or whatever), close web page, wait 2 minutes, do it again.

Then check the log and see when it finally could not connect anymore.
Re: Battery Reports
March 21, 2012 04:25PM
Can someone knowledgeable in the ways of electricity help me confirm something/correct my confusion?

I'm considering picking up an Aluratek 5000 mAh battery (which outputs 1 mAh) to use with the MR3020 (the power supply of which supplies 1A).

Does this mean the Aluratek would last 5 hours with eh MR3020?

(5000mAh=5Ah? 5Ah.... which would be 5 hours running 1 A? )
Re: Battery Reports
March 21, 2012 06:31PM
TP-Link TL-MR3020

I have a few options I am trying out/tried out. I have a Duracell Pocket USB Charger which maybe lasted an hour. I might have an older model than the one displayed at here because on the back of mine it says the output is 5 Vdc / 500mA and the battery type is 3.7Vdc / 500mAh. The one at the link says it is 1150mAh. I also have a JuiceBar Version 1 which more information about it can be found here. On the back of the product it lists 1500mAh Rechargeable. That is about all of the physical information I have access to. I am going to let it charge up fully and then test it out.

It would be great if someone knowledgeable about electricity or what kind of battery life we should expect could chime in. I will update my post after I am able to time the JuiceBar.

Again I don't really know this to be true, but I found a solution online for calculating battery life. Maybe it isn't helpful in this situation, but the formula is: Estimated total battery life = (Ib / Id) x 0.7

Where:
Ib = Total Capacity Rating of battery (mAh)
Id = Current Consumption of the device in milliamps (mA)

The formula was found here or you can input the numbers into an online form here. I don't know if this works in all cases or any cases. Since there was mention of a 2400mAh battery barely lasting 8 hours when according to the formula it should have only ran for 1.68 hours. Of course I don't know for sure if socaladam is running the MR3020 or if the 1000mA is right to input as the consumption of the device.

I'm curious if the New Trent iGeek Portable Charger would be any good or too bulky.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/21/2012 06:54PM by anvyl.
Re: Battery Reports
March 21, 2012 07:25PM
guyanonymous Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Can someone knowledgeable in the ways of
> electricity help me confirm something/correct my
> confusion?
>
> I'm considering picking up an Aluratek 5000 mAh
> battery (which outputs 1 mAh) to use with the
> MR3020 (the power supply of which supplies 1A).
>
> Does this mean the Aluratek would last 5 hours
> with eh MR3020?
>
> (5000mAh=5Ah? 5Ah.... which would be 5 hours
> running 1 A? )


Yes, if the adverstised capacity is accurate, but it most certainly is not. If your draw is 1/2 amp, you can expect about 8 hours. If your draw is 1 amp, you could expect about three hours. Judging the draw off of the max capacity of the power supply is a poor indicator.
Re: Battery Reports
March 21, 2012 07:28PM
anvyl Wrote:

> but the formula is: Estimated total battery life =
> (Ib / Id) x 0.7
>
> Where:
> Ib = Total Capacity Rating of battery (mAh)
> Id = Current Consumption of the device in
> milliamps (mA)
>

That's a good rule of thumb equation, yes.
Re: Battery Reports
March 21, 2012 08:15PM
According to the OpenWrt WIki, the TP-Link MR3020 and TP-Link WR703N have nearly identical hardware specs, and the WR703N have been measured to draw a maximum of 185 mA (at boot) and an average of 100 mA with WiFi, giving an average power consumption of 0.5 W.

Using anvyl's calculation, that should give a battery life of 7 hours per 1000 mAh, but this doesn't fit with socaladam's experience with the SIIG 2400. The SIIG 2400 has a capacity of 2400 mAh, which should give nearly 17 hours of operation according to what we know so far. Where did the missing 10 hours go?

Toshiba informs us that the slowest USB drive listed on their page, draws 60 - 80 mA, and this paper tells the same story. Even though the USB specification says that the device should use a maximum of 2.5 mA when idle, the operating system keeps sending it a 2-byte keep alive signal, preventing the flash drive from entering low power mode, so they use nearly as much power when idle as when under load.
So if we assume. that an idle USB stick uses 80 mA, performing the calculation again gives us a battery life of a little over 9 hours with a 2400 mAh battery. And that's when both router and USB drive is just sitting there doing nothing...

- caretu
Re: Battery Reports
March 21, 2012 09:59PM
I'm wondering if anyone has come up with a solar power solution that might allow a long term installation in an out of the way outside location?
Re: Battery Reports
March 21, 2012 10:13PM
caretu Wrote:
>The SIIG 2400 has a capacity of 2400
> mAh, which should give nearly 17 hours of
> operation according to what we know so far. Where
> did the missing 10 hours go?
>

Most likley the SIIG doesn't really have that kind of capacity. The battery industry bases their estimates on capacity on a factory new battery, but rechargeable batteries lose max capacity over time. Lithium Ion batteries are particularly bad for this, even though they start out with the highest max capacity per volume, which is why they are standard on any cell phone these days. If you own a cell phone with battery older than a year, it's likely that your battery doesn't hold a charge for half as long as it did when you first bought it. LitIon can 'rot' even on the shelf before you buy it, so depending on when the battery was manufactured, a new 2400 mAh battery could have been down to 2000 before it was purchased.
Re: Battery Reports
March 21, 2012 10:14PM
zerode Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm wondering if anyone has come up with a solar
> power solution that might allow a long term
> installation in an out of the way outside
> location?

Could gut one of those solar yard lights.
Re: Battery Reports
March 22, 2012 12:15AM
creighto,

I know Li-ion batteries don't keep their capacity over time, but I assumed that socaladam had recently bought the SIIG 2400, and a newly bought unit shouldn't have lost such a large percentage of its capacity, unless the store that sold it have had it lying around for the past couple of years. In which case they should never have sold it, and I would have demanded my money back. I've heard somewhere that Li-ion batteries can loose up to 20% of their capacity per year, so the 2000 mAh capacity you mention doesn't seem unreasonable. But even so, 2000 mAh should give 14 hours of operation with a consumption of 100 mA. To get only 8 hours, you would have to be all the way down to ~1200 mAh, given the equation (lb / ld) x 0.7 is correct. If they're selling batteries with only 50% of the stated capacity, I'd call that a scam. But I'm no battery expert, so of course I could be wrong, and if he used an old unit he just had lying around, then it's a whole different story...

- caretu
Re: Battery Reports
March 22, 2012 04:18AM
It's more than 20%, much more in my experience.
Re: Battery Reports
March 22, 2012 05:37AM
Our rule of thumb in the vhs-c/8mm video camera days was 1/2-2/3 of stated battery life.

I just wish I could find a reasonably priced, reliable 5000mAh+ unit that delivered upt to 2.1A....that seems like the best optoin, but the shipping form the UK or US is huge.
Re: Battery Reports
March 22, 2012 03:52PM
Well I did some more research on power consumption. Caretu mentioned Toshiba said their slowest USB Flash drive uses 80mA. I found on the PNY site that they list their usb flash drives as using 1mA in standyby mode and 190mA for high speed or 150mA for full speed. I haven't tested the power consumption of the MR3020 nor do I plan on doing so, but according to USB specifications the power consumption should be between 500mA and 900mA. So if we account for a worst case scenario the 900mA for the MR3020 plus the 135mA (average of 190mA and 80mA) for the usb flash drive is 1090mA.

Putting this into my formula that others verified as a good ballpark equation you should have (mAh / 1035) x 0.7. Now if we add in the mentioned batteries so far we have:

SIIG 2400: (2400 / 1035) 0.7 = 1.62 hours
Aluratek APB01F: (5000 / 1035) x 0.7 = 3.38 hours
JuiceBar v1: (1500 / 1035) x 0.7 = 1.01 hours

Socaladam mentioned his SIIG 2400 barely lasted 8 hours. Also creighto mentioned that judging the power capacity off of the max power consumption is a poor idea. So let's go back and use the smallest power consumption for usb devices and still the max power consumption of usb flash drives.

SIIG 2400: (2400 / 635) x 0.7 = 2.64 hours
Aluratek APB01F: (5000 / 635) x 0.7 = 5.51 hours
JuiceBar v1: (1500 / 635) x 0.7 = 1.65 hours

This still does not match up with what Socaladam stated his SIIG 2400 achieved. For his the formula would be:
(2400 / 210 ) x 0.7 = 8 hours. If we subtract the average of 135 mA for the usb drive this means the MR3020 power is 75 mAh. If we continue and use the 75mAh for my JuiceBar it should run for (1500 / 210) x 0.7 = 5 hours.

As others have mentioned the age of the battery has a factor in it too. I tested out a Duracell Pocket USB Charger which max capacity of the battery was 500mAh. It did not last a full hour but it did last at least half an hour. I only connected to the piratebox a few times, and I did not download and files for a long period of time. I would say it is safe to say that the MR3020 does not use 500mA of power.

If we use my test with the Duracell Pocket USB Charger to estimate power the formula would look like this... (500 / 435 ) x 0.7 = 0.80 hours. 435 = 300 for power of MR3020 and 135 for power of USB flash drive. At the time of writing I have had my JuiceBar v1 powering my PirateBox for 2.5 hours. This also holds credence that the MR3020 does not use 500mA of power. (1500 / 435) x 0.7 = 2.41.

I will add another post once I find out how long my JuiceBar v1 lasts and comment on zerode wondering about solar power since my JuiceBar is solar rechargeable.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/22/2012 05:28PM by anvyl.
Re: Battery Reports
March 22, 2012 05:49PM
My JuiceBar v1 powered my PirateBox for about 4.5 hours. It is handy because it is solar chargeable. I will do some testing on it to see about powering the PirateBox while it is charging it via solar power as well as while it is charging via usb cable or power brick that comes with the MR3020. Once I know this I will have a better idea of whether it is worth it if you will not be around a power source where you can plug in for an extended period of time.

I almost forgot...On the PNY site it also stated that their usb flash drives use 1mA of power in standby mode. I would say this would be the case for all usb flash drives in standby mode. Recreating the formulas again we get:

SIIG 2400: (2400 / 501) 0.7 = 3.53 hours
Aluratek APB01F: (5000 / 501) x 0.7 = 6.98 hours
JuiceBar v1: (1500 / 501) x 0.7 = 2.09 hours

Still these amounts aren't correct as I have had my JuiceBar running for a little over 4 hours. As far as solar power goes right now the chargers I have read state to not get them wet which means they can't be outside during rain.

Specifically I will be looking at the Freeloader Pro Solar Charger as that is the device I am able to find the manual of the quickest. I do not own the device, rather I am obtaining the manual from the profile on ThinkGeek. The manual states:

• For best performance, please ensure FreeLoader Pro is given exposure to sunny conditions for 5 to 10 hours.
• Ensure the FreeLoader Pro is outside, facing south, in an unshaded position and ideally tilted at a 45 degree angle.

The Frequently Asked Questions list even more items that are pertinent but I am not going to copy them in here. I am just going to discuss them. It states that on a full sunny day from 9am to 6pm it should be mostly charged. That is quite a bit of time for the device to charge up, but this looks to be the case for a lot of consumer grade portable devices. The manual also states that it powers items 10x faster than the solar cells can charge the battery. Since the device can't necessarily sit outside and be rained on you could maybe cover it loosely with some clear wrap. You still run the chance of water getting on the device and messing up the battery. I do not know how solar panels operate, but I would assume they are okay to be outside since the battery/items they are charging are indoors. I guess you could maybe put small solar panels outside and have a box the PirateBox is stored in, but unless you have a battery the PirateBox would only be running when their is sun. As far as how solar lights operate that too is a mystery to me. Could possibly fit the MR3020 into the top of one and run the battery to the PirateBox through wiring. I am assuming that they have a battery since they charge during the day and emit light at night. Again you have to rely on how fast the solar cells/panels can charge up the battery. Consumer grade portable electronics might not be best.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/22/2012 06:01PM by anvyl.
Re: Battery Reports
March 22, 2012 08:22PM
anvyl,

If you read the paper I referred to (see my first post for link), you'll see that the host computer's operating system (Windows / Linux / OS X) simply doesn't allow the USB drive to enter standby mode. So even if the PNY device only uses 1 mA while in standby, that doesn't matter, as it is never allowed to enter standby as long as it's connected to the computer, in this case the router.

When it comes to the router, seeing how similar hardware the MR3020 and MR703 have, (same CPU, same amount of flash and RAM and same wireless chipset.. again, see links in my first post) I can see no reason why they shouldn't have approximately the same power consumption.

If we assume that your Juicebox is no older than a year, and Li-ion batteries loose their capacity at a rate of 20% per year we have the following information:

Juicebox capacity = 1500 mAh x 80% = 1200 mAh
MR3020 draw = 100 mA
USB draw = 50 mA

This gives us (1200 mAh / 150 mA) x 0.7 = 5.6 hours. Given your experience of 4.5 hours, I'd call that a fair estimate, considering that all the numbers are just approximations

Could you please check the age of your Juicebox? The year, and sometimes month, of manufacture is usually printed somewhere on the device

- caretu
Re: Battery Reports
March 26, 2012 02:53AM
I returned the siig2400 and bought the energizer xr4001 which is 4400MAh.

My testing is not scientific with calculations based on rated specs. I merely charge the battery fully the night before and let it run all day at work.

The siig crapped out before I left work for the day.

The energizer ran for over 12 hours.

This is all done with no load.
Re: Battery Reports
March 26, 2012 03:47AM
caretu Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> anvyl,
>
> If you read the paper I referred to (see my first
> post for link), you'll see that the host
> computer's operating system (Windows / Linux / OS
> X) simply doesn't allow the USB drive to enter
> standby mode.

It seems like we could avoid much of this, and extend the life of both the thumbdrive and batteries. There should be a script that wakes the thumbdrive, and sends 'keep alive' packets to the drive, only when someone is actually connected to the device; and then the drive could be allowed to time out about 5 minutes later. In this way, at least the drive could sleep while no one was connected to the piratebox.
Re: Battery Reports
January 05, 2013 12:05AM
Has anyone tried the RavPower units yet? I just got a PB04 in the mail, and it's charging now -- I'll let you know how it works, but it LOOKS, from the specs, like it should work well. 10000mAh, outputs 1A and 2A.

I got it for $35 on one of the 'daily deal' sites, but I believe it's available for $39 at NewEgg and others.
Re: Battery Reports
February 22, 2014 12:25PM
Hello, I have Sumsung phone and Ipad, can RAVRpower charge both of these? I guess there are different specifications between phone and pad.smileys with beer
Re: Battery Reports
February 22, 2014 01:21PM
Re: Battery Reports
March 14, 2014 08:32AM
Some power banks take a long time to fully charge both cell phones and a iPadsmileys with beer
Re: Battery Reports
April 03, 2014 05:07AM
I got newly published WIWOFIT wireless charging pad from Amazon USA , small circle dimension is OK for my desk. First try found it took a little longer time than cable charger, after consulting I believe it’s reasonable and confirms with QI standards, it fits power killer like me, without boring cable.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/03/2014 05:09AM by charliehill.
Re: Battery Reports
April 13, 2015 12:28AM
zerode Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm wondering if anyone has come up with a solar
> power solution that might allow a long term
> installation in an out of the way outside
> location?

Zerode check out this url: [www.gomadic.com]

i just wonder still how to make it 24x7 operational with a battery , and will it charge during the day.

also does anybody know if the mr3020 piratebox will automatically boot as soon as there is current again (or as soon as there is sunlight again in the morning) ?
Re: Battery Reports
April 16, 2015 06:40PM
Hi,
yes, it will boot. Unfortunately the low voltage may not be enough to power the usb stick and the piratebox won't boot correct. It stays in that status until someone does powercycle it.

A clever bootup script (redecting (partition detection on) the USB Stick again and again) would help.
Or a circuit, which gives the power free, when enough power is there.

regards Matthias
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